U.S.A Founded on Christianity?
61Is the U.S. ultimately a christian nation?
I am absolutely sick of this issue. I have seen all kinds of debates on the subject, but is it really that difficult to find the truth? I did some research and found things that would outrage the fundamentalists: undeniable proof that this country was, in fact, not founded on Christianity.
So in my research I ran into the Treaty of Tripoli. Though not very interesting as a whole I discovered something that made me ecstatic. Article 11 of the treaty begins:
"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;.........."
It goes on to state that we will remain peaceful because we do not discriminate against religion and therefore will not go to a war over religious beliefs.
And I know this is not quite iron clad enough for people but what about this: the treaty was written by President John Adams' administration. He was considered one of the most influential of our founding fathers. And to make it even more obvious that this was the intent of our country this treaty had to be passed by congress. In fact, it was only the third document to ever be ratified unanimously at the time.
And with the belief that we are a Christian country comes the argument over Separation of Church and State.
Even before that, separation of church and state was an issue. Though not named exactly, the first amendment of the constitution lays out certain requirements of our country and states that ultimately make it impossible to mingle government and religion. It reads:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Then to make it even less likely, congress included the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose and they included the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment .
I know that the First Amendment is one of the most referenced items in most debates about the Separation of Church and State. It does not state it directly but many of our founding fathers viewed it necessary to separate government and religion in order to avoid religious persecution and discrimination. Actually, the phrase "separation of church and state" came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group calling themselves the Danbury Baptists. He wrote:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
In conclusion, with the first amendment in place our Founding Fathers made sure that we could not be a theocracy. They knew that being a theocracy would take away many of our rights. They eliminated religious persecution and discrimination and helped make it possible for us to be the well diversified country that we are today.It is clear that they did not found this country on any single religion or belief.
A Christian Nation?
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Your right the United States was not created on Christian doctrine or it's beliefs directly but instead on the values and morals that were given to them by living in a environment that Christin values were not silenced by its government. Even though the colonies were established by people seeking religious freedom. It was common to encounter public prayer, religious statements of faith, and hear scripture quoted while debating issues and conducting business. It was never the founding father intent to silence one belief or the right to exercise that belief over another. Many people today have distorted the idea of separation of church and state to mean the banning of any act of faith on public property or forums. Instead of what it really means, which is the preventing of organized beliefs from using government to enforce their belief over another. i.e. atheist over Christian or even scientific theory over faith. All beliefs are suppose to have equal protections and rights to exercise that belief in public or in congress if so chooses and we cant stop it. What we can stop is laws that mandate a particular faith or doctrine. Yet it doesn't mean we cant make laws based on our beliefs, just that our beliefs can not be established through laws.
Just a point of view
Rob
Rob
I completely agree, however the extremes that people are going to today have made it difficult not to regulate things a bit.
Thanks for writing on this important subject. I have several hubs that, for the most part, take the opposite view you have presented. In my hubs I give my reasons why I believe that the Treaty of Tripoli does not support the secular thesis, that the Establishment Clause has a much more narrow meaning than the one prescribed by judges today. Furthermore, I would say that Jefferson's "Wall of Separation" is better interpreted as a political attempt on Jefferson's part to align himself with Northern Republicans than it is a comprehensive statement about Jefferson's legal philosophy. Anyway, I would say that his statement is irrelevant as to the Christian nation question.
Thanks again for addressing this topic.
Jefferson wrote in answer to the letter he received from the Anibaptists (spelling is probably wrong) regarding their concern over the government encroaching upon their religious beliefs. Jefferson's separation of church and state meant exactly the opposite from what we are interpreting it today. Separation of church from state means to protect the church from the government, not to take religion out of government or protect the government from the church. The constitution, our seal and the Declaration of Independence all have Judaio/Christian values as their basis. And if you read many quotes from our founding fathers and other patriots of the day they believe that the reading of scripture and the practice of religion,basically Christianity, is necessary for our country to exist. Read the speech Ben Franklin gave at the 1787 Constitutional Convention.
Thanks for your point of view and for asking for others' point of view.
svencill - Shame about the Husband and geographic separation, after reading your works, I think I'm love (smirk).
Though I am sure I overstep, I must say that I find it incredulous that any serious student of American History, of our founding especially, could ever come to the conclusion that the first amendment sought primarily to protect religion from government (though that is certainly also a purpose).
There is no Church of the USA. There IS a Church of England, at one time the only recognized faith allowed practice in that country. Many of the initial settlers were escaping the draconian Church which supported (controlled, or perhaps was controlled by, depending on the moment) the Kings of England. That was what they sought to avoid. On the other hand, the Roman Catholic Church once held sway over all the governments throughout Europe. The only way to keep government from corrupting religion and, frankly, to keep religion from corrupting government, is to prevent their marriage. To erect a wall between church and state.
Thomas Jefferson was called an Atheist by opponents when he ran for President. In fact, he was a Deist who not only refuted the divinity of Christ, he rewrote the Gospels, removing all traces of the supernatural (also know as miracles). In the Jefferson Bible, there are no references to a Virgin Birth, Loaves and Fishes, or even the Resurrection!
Franklin was also a renowned Deist, though less strictly so.
Of course, while any of us can selectively weave the shreds of history together to prove virtually any point, one should be mindful that there were several faiths represented in the Continental Congresses, many of which would love to supersede the others, but none of which who wanted to risk having their faith outlawed--risk being ruled by faith forced upon them--as had happened in Europe.
Keep em coming, svencill.
Thanks!I would like to say that though I think that there may have been SOME religious influence on our constitution, I also believe that separation of church and state is necessary to protect our government from being overtaken by any church or religion. Ultimately it protects us too, from the very thing that brought people to this country in the first place.
Jim Bryan--You are correct to a point. They did not want one sect to prevail over the others. But many of the founders talked about the "general principles of Christianity" that they felt were essential for a free republic.
actually it's the same "general principles" of a lot of religions not just Christianity.
You might want to read the Constitution and the 1st Amendment again. No where in it is "Separation of Church and State clause". Before you argue back - you should learn where "Separation of Church and State" came from, and what it was used for in the judgment given. A Lot of people out there get it entirely wrong. This is because they only pick out the part that supports their position. Look at all 50 of the State's constitutions’. You will find just how twisted the fraise has gone (They all recognize a higher deity, and that moral values are necessary). There is nothing wrong with the Government supporting Judaio/Christian values. What they can't do is establish "like England" a National religion. That is what Jefferson was talking about in his letter, that is what the Founders were talking about, and interestingly enough - Nothing prevents the individual States from declaring a religion (and early on several did). You will find that the Government up to the 50's even printed bibles and gave them out for the general public.
Ok and what happens when we allow our government to show more support for a particular religion. In a diverse country where we all believe in being treated fairly and discrimination is illegal, do you really think that it would be a great idea for them to do that? And I never said that someone in the government can't support whatever religion they like because, of course, that would not be very American of me. But the government as a whole cannot in any way show partiality. It would be unconstitutional.
And, sure a state may be able to establish a particular religion for themselves, but it would not last long. With the anti-discrimination laws and the constitution, they would soon find themselves in deep water.
I know exactly what "Separation of church and state" refers to and if you had read my article thoroughly you would have noticed that I did in fact state what you did.
"Then to make it even less likely, congress included the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose and they included the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment."
Svencill - Loved this. My husband is a genius and intellectual (yeah not easy to live with). He has been arguuing with christians over this for years. He says anyone who truly knows and has studied their history knows that the founding fathers were deist. Believed in God, not religion. Many Christians have a hard time acepting this and I am not sure why. Does it really matter? This country was never founded on any religion. There is no argument to be had here. It was not founded on RELIGION. I liked this hub very much. Nicely written.
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svencill Hub Author 2 years ago
I want to thank everyone for reading and would love to read your take on the subject.